Wednesday, August 25, 2010

 

Ask the Administrator: Transferring to a Private College

A new correspondent writes:

I have been away from the academic world for a while, and have been made an offer to use the local community college as a means toward reintegrating myself into the university environment, with hopes of transferring fairly rapidly to a liberal-arts college or university. The quick transfer would be most desirable to me as I already have a number of disparate credits under my belt from my years as an academic dilettante, and would think it best to be able to search the various faculties at the college from which I intend to matriculate for those professors with whom I share similar interests and ideas before I declare my specialty. Thus, I wish to ensure that kindred spirits will be advising my thesis and recommending good graduate or professional programs to me—and likewise me to them.

I have attempted to make applications to these B.A.-granting colleges before, only to be stymied by the volume of paperwork, particularly as such “paperwork” becomes increasingly computerized. Thus, the bureaucratic assistance hopefully provided by the community college would be of great benefit to me.

My questions are these:

All the institutions to which I would desire to transfer are private; knowing that each college may have different policies in this regard, is it most likely that the credits gained at the community college will carry over? It is not that I personally would mind retaking classes in Western civilization, Shakespeare, or rhetoric, or gaining an additional year in which to do my investigative work, but rather that my wallet would.
Even if the credits are not likely to carry over, would the evidence of current academic activity nevertheless incline the admissions personnel at the B.A.-granting institution to look upon my application for study more favourably?
Most generally, is taking classes at a community college an advisable way to progress toward my above-stated purposes, or would you recommend something else?


You will note that I have not specifically named any of the colleges involved herein, as I’m not certain that the specifics are yet relevant; if they are, though, I can gladly provide them. As for myself, though, it may help to note that I would be considered a non-traditional student, being 30 years of age. Those concentrations which would most interest me are philosophy, literature, and languages, all of which I’ve been studying autodidactically for over a decade. I have published poems and essays, worked as an editor, am bilingual, and have finally come to the decision that it would likely be best for me to make my career in academia.


(In a followup, he noted that he’s American and writing in the American context; the English spellings are for reasons of his own. I asked because I can only answer within the American context.)

I feel ethically bound to warn you that full-time positions in academia in the areas of philosophy, literature, and languages are hotly contested, and likely to remain so for the foreseeable future. While the decision to take that path is your own, I would strongly advise avoiding heavy debt burdens to do it.

That said, I’ll take a shot at each question in sequence, and then ask my wise and worldly readership to help fill out (or correct) the picture.

1. Will the credits transfer? Given that you’re looking at private colleges, the answer will vary from college to college. I can imagine two effective ways to get specifics here. One, if you already know which four-year schools you’d target, would be to talk to them directly. With which cc’s do they have “articulation agreements”? From which cc’s do they take transfers? What are their expectations or requirements for transfer students? It’s common, for example, for them to take certain courses but not others; if you know that when you start at the cc, you can build your schedule to maximize transferability.

If you were targeting public colleges or universities, this would be somewhat easier, since many states have statewide policies or agreements on transfer credits. But private colleges can set their own policies.

You’ll also need to be very specific in your questions. Sometimes a college will “take” certain courses, but it won’t count them towards your degree program; instead, it will assign them “free elective” status. “Free electives” are where credits go to die. Beware.

The other way would be to go to the cc you have in mind, and ask to speak to the transfer counselor. (This person is usually connected to the Admissions office.) Ask about the cc’s recent record of transfers to the colleges you have in mind. How many students went? How many credits were accepted? What are the quirks of admission to each?

Obviously, these approaches aren’t mutually exclusive, and you may be well advised to do both.

2. Is a fresh start likely to improve your chances of admission? If your previous experience was an an “academic dilettante,” then probably. Nothing proves the ability to succeed like a record of success. If you can build a convincing story to the effect that you lacked focus at 18, but you’ve gained life experience and a sense of what you want since then, and your record at the cc shows talent and drive, you should be a very compelling candidate. (Of course, if you do poorly at the cc, that won’t help.) A couple of years at or near a 4.0 should put to rest any misgivings about ability or focus. At cc tuition levels, they should also take the edge off your loan burdens later. Some private colleges even have scholarships specifically for transfer students, so you could conceivably finish with a prestigious degree at a very deep discount. In this market, that’s a pretty good deal.

3. Is a community college a good starting point? It may well be, though again, not every cc is the same. Do some legwork. Does your particular one have a good record of transfer? Does it have enough of the courses you would need? Are you willing to forego the joys of dorm life? (At your age, that may be a blessing.) On the flip side, are you comfortable saving thousands of dollars and having small classes?

If you can honestly answer ‘yes’ to each of those, then yes, it may be a very good option.

Good luck!

Wise and worldly readers, what would you add (or correct)?

Have a question? Ask the Administrator at deandad (at) gmail (dot) com.

Comments:
Some things to consider regarding transferring credits to a private college (PC):

- Semesters v. Quarters. Often a course from a CC operating on the quarter system will transfer as 3/4 or a PC class operating on the semester system.

- Gen Ed. Generally PCs have gen ed requirements which they are very proud of, and students are required to take (almost) all of their gen ed requirements at that institution.

- Residency. In general the last N credits must be taken at the PC, not elsewhere.

Those things said, if you get a lot of pre-reqs out of the way at a CC, you will be able to get started on your area of interest immediately upon arrival at the PC.

Also, you might consider highlighting your 'intellectual' maturity in your application materials. The PC won't, we hope, need to expend effort training you how 'to do college', etc.
 
I'm not trying to be mean, but I feel compelled to say: If the amount of paperwork required to apply to college is daunting, then graduate or professional school may not be the best idea. Which ever way you go, you're going to have a lot more of it, and both are going to prepare you for a job with lots and lots of paperwork.
 
Like Lance, I feel compelled to be something of a damp squib. I think that it's waaaaay too early in your academic career to decide that you want a career in academia. First, figure out what it is that we do--it's actually quite different from what you've probably been doing as an autodidact. Second, figure out if you like being around undergraduates, and third, do you like teaching? Then, keep in mind, as DD said, that academic jobs are extremely hard to come by and that--unfortunately--your age may work against you.

Finally, why only private colleges? If finances are a factor, I'm puzzled as to why you wouldn't be considering public colleges.
 
Also think about age discrimination. I know about it because I've experienced it. It's as rampant in the academic world as it is anywhere else, yet it can be difficult to "prove" in a court of law.

If you are just starting your quest for a BA at age 30, you will be in your mid-30's when you complete it. Then, add another two or three years for a master's degree, and five to ten for a PhD.

So, you would be entering the academic job market somewhere around the age of 40. And you would be competing with candidates who are 27 to 30 years old.
 
It's a great idea to get a BA, and using a CC as a springboard is definitely a good plan. DD is full of good advice on this one; follow it closely.

But no, don't go into academia afterwards. Don't screw up a good idea by putting it in service to a bad one.
 
There's something really fishy about this e-mail. The language is so pompous and stilted, it sounds like it was written by some dipshit trying to sound erudite". And this whole business about how applying to college is so "daunting", but that some community college is gonna help him overcome that daunting obstacle, sounds like the ravings of a self-absorbed delusional Walter Mitty type.

I don't know why someone would write this kind of e-mail to Dead Dad, but I believe it is either some kind of weird trolling attempt, or the person writing it is some kind of crackpot.
 
I would like to be charitable, but I have to agree with Comrade PhysioProf. For me the warning signal is the phrase "kindred spirits will be advising my thesis." They haven't finished their BA yet, but they want to ensure that their PhD thesis is overseen (oversawn? hmmm...) by a "kindred spirit?"

To me this says nothing so much as "crank." My advice is, if you really feel the need for a BA, go right ahead. But if, with no experience in academia, you are confident you have a thesis that is endangered by the wrong kind of input, don't waste your time or that of anyone else by even looking for graduate schools.
 
As the author of the original letter to Dean Dad, I should like to thank the dean for his informative answer and all the respondents for their words of wisdom.

Nevertheless, I feel a certain clarification of my intent to be in order.

Firstly, I should respond to Richard by saying that I'd be seeking advisers for a B.A.-thesis, not a Ph.D. Should I persist into doctoral studies, I have no idea where I'll be doing that years from now. In large part, I think that depends on those I meet along the way.

Secondly, to DrGunPowderPlot and any other who may think me unduly dismissive of public universities, I was deliberately trying to be as general as possible in my letter, but perhaps it now behooves me to be somewhat more specific. When I say a "private" college, what I specifically mean is a Catholic college. Joining a religious order with profound connections to the scholarly world, such as the Dominicans, is not off the table. Thus, I would see it personally appropriate to kill two birds with one stone by finishing my degree as well as making my acquaintance with priests of those orders, both priest-professors and vocations (recruitment and entry) personnel, at the same place, likely a college run by one of those orders. My further studies and teaching or other positions would thereafter be at the order's leisure.

It should go without saying that this is not possible at a public university, and, even despite many of the highly competent professors working there, it is thus not appropriate for my purposes.

As the clock is ticking on me (most orders make 35 their cut-off age for new recruits), I am taking action presently so my connections will be established within a few years.

Apologies if my deliberate vagaries gave the wrong impression.
 
I apologize to Young Fogey for my lack of charitability, but I do think it's important that you be frank with yourself as you decide your path. The way you formulated your imagined path struck me as simultaneously self-important and self-defensive, which are warning signs to me. It's good to know that you aren't talking about a PhD thesis--but, seriously, a BA is a generalist degree, and a senior thesis is not in any way anything other than a learning experience. What you learn is how to conduct research and how to write within an academic context, but it is unrealistic to expect the finished product to be anything more than either a capstone to your BA or a stepping stone to serious scholarly work. If you have a topic already that is so important to you (and, by your initial question, important to other people as well), why not take some courses on research methods and just write the book?

My advice on graduate school is always to ask yourself two questions: 1) what do I want to accomplish over the long run? 2) is graduate school the best way to accomplish those things?

You can write without going to grad school. You can teach without going to grad school. You can be part of a religious order without going to grad school.

For heaven's sake, don't put yourself through graduate school because you think it's a meal ticket, or a social obligation, or to save the world, or as a way to write the book you feel welling up inside you. The odds are that you won't survive, and if you do, you won't achieve your goals. If you want to go to a seminary, go to a seminary, and pick an order that works in the world if that's what you want to do. But don't confuse graduate school for a seminary or a writing workshop.
 
OP -- your writing style is unnecessarily difficult to penetrate and will separate you from any people you seek to serve.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simple_English
 
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