Wednesday, May 23, 2012
One for the Guidance Counselors
This is the time of year when panicked seniors who either didn’t get into the colleges they wanted, or can’t afford the colleges they wanted, are looking for options.
Some will take a “gap year,” which is a nice gig if you can get it. Some will join the military. Some will go to work. And some just won’t know what to do.
According to this story in Reuters, college dropouts do just as badly in the labor market now as people who never attended college. But two-year graduates do far, far better. It’s much better to do two years at a two year college and emerge with a degree than to do two years at a four year college and emerge with nothing. Cheaper, too.
Which means that for the student who’s panicking, community college can make a lot of sense.
Every time a guidance counselor asks a student “are you looking at two year schools or four year schools,” my teeth grind. For many students, “or” is the wrong word. “And” is the best choice. Go to the two year school first. Get the Gen Eds done cheaply and in small classes. Build a record of college success. Keep the loan balances low.
If the student wants to transfer on from there, that avenue is open. (Admittedly, California is becoming an exception, but still.) Upon transfer, the student will have only two years of the higher tuition to pay, but can still graduate with a four-year degree. But if that’s not going to happen -- if the student’s life is such that a four-year commitment just isn’t in the cards -- then it’s far better to have a degree to show for two years of work than to just drop out.
Which makes sense, if you think about it. To an employer, a two-year degree at least indicates the discipline and ability to complete a program. (Even if the student intended to transfer and didn’t, the degree still indicates success.) Dropping out without anything to show for it doesn’t accomplish quite the same thing.
The community college offers the safer option. If two years is all the student can do, it offers “graduate” status, as opposed to “dropout” status. If the student goes past the two years, she does so with a lighter debt burden. This is not to be dismissed lightly.
I know some high schools like to brag about the percentage of their graduates who go directly to four-year colleges, and some of them even exert internal pressure not to mess with those numbers. But thinking of two-year degrees as terminal is often mistaken. They can be, but they frequently aren’t. And allowing the panicky student to keep her options open on the cheap is nothing to apologize for.
Good luck, counselors. If you doubt the wisdom of any of this, just check the numbers on unemployment rates for two-year grads as opposed to college dropouts, or student loan burdens, or average earnings for high school grads. It’s all there.
Hoping to see many of your charges soon,
But it makes sense. There should be a real difference between getting an AA with a coherent gen ed program and dropping out with a random subset of those classes, but I'll bet employers also suspect the dropout developed bad habits on the way to dropping out.
PS - Next time a HS brags about the fraction that go to 4-year colleges, be sure to ask them if they know how many make through the first year.
1. We've found that students who transfer from from the local cc to our PU have a much higher persistence rate than those that haven't completed the AA. We push students to finish the AA. Several of our transfer scholarships require it. That makes our CC partners very happy.
2. I'm lucky that in our state an articulation was worked out years ago between the CC's and the public institutions. Students don't lose credits. And having working at a private SLAC in my state, we were very generous in transferring credit, sometimes more than the public U's would bring in. If your state hasn't gotten it's act together on transferring credit, start there.
One day, when I rule the world, the cc's in one state will all use the same course numbering system. It's a pipe dream, I know.
I also had another friend who teaches English comp at a CC in another state tell me that the public state university does not accept the English comp credits from her CC. Really?
I understand that there might be issues at CCs, as Anon 8:24, but it seems like many four year schools just assume that we're "lesser" somehow.
I will also note, with respect to transfers, that a relatively new study on transfer and mobility indicates that the most common transfer destination in higher ed is public two-year colleges--this is true even for private four-year colleges. So although articulation agreements from 2-year to 4-year are important, there is significant flow in the other direction that I think needs addressing.
I really do mean it when I say that this is not meant to suggest anything about anon's program or community colleges in general. IT wasn't really a direct reaction to anon's comment at all. It was really meant as a reaction to the idea that credits should automatically transfer - an idea which is often mentioned in this blog's comments.
To further add to my frustration, I actually have taught courses at one of the four year schools I'm mentioning for more than a decade in this same program. Something is fishy if I'm fine to teach at the four year school, but yet, students that I send over from my CC can't have their biotech classes transfer directly.
In short, try to plan rather than assuming that every transfer will work perfectly.
As I said, my comment wasn't really a response to your post. Dean Dad brought the issue up in his allusion to California. Really, though, it's some of my current frustrations (caused by ill-prepared students) seeping into the conversation.
I'd like to echo Edmund Dantes in saying that picking some sort of name - even if for a single comment thread - would lead to a more coherent conversation.
A second idea is to have everyone (or most everyone) start at a CC to complete the first 2 years. Then, those who want to continue towards a Bachelor's degree would transfer to a University to finish the last 2 years. This would be a dramatic shift--drastic increase in enrollment at 2-year schools. Would this work? Universities would no longer be 4-year schools, but they could specialize in research and upper division courses.
Such a very useful article. Very interesting to read this article.I would like to thank you for the
efforts you had made for writing this awesome article.
Sign in to Gmail to access to all Gooogle services. Log in to your account or sign up to create a new
gmail sign in
gmail log in
Strike Force Heroes
In this game, you start at the cavern men's age, then evolve! There is a total of 5 ages, each with its
units and turrets. Take control of 16 different units and 15 different turrets to defend your base and
destroy your enemy.
age of war
We are really grateful for your blog post. You will find a lot of approaches after visiting your post.
strike force heroes
earn to die
Fireboy and Watergirl arrived again to the temple in the forest. 2 players together can help them to find
their way out.
fire boy and water girl
Amazing insight you have on this, Happy wheels it's nice to find a website that details so much information about different artists... Age of war 2 This article always blew me... Earn to die For how many times I have read this.
slither io Hi! I’ve been reading your blog for a while slitherio it's nice to find a website that details so much big farm